Quick question. Do we label the behavior as they are learning? If not, when should we be labeling?
Welcome Margo! I am tagging Jordan on this – you can tag her on any comment by using the @ symbol and then jordan-biggs (@Jordan Biggs)
No, you want to add a cue once the dog is offering the behavior by themselves. In the beginning you are shaping everything and encouraging behavior but not cuing it
Hi Daisy – here is my video link on targeting. https://vimeo.com/288441450/603366143d
Trooper knows how to work with nose and paw targets. He is much stronger on paw targets.
Hey! This is looking so fantastic! The nose touch looks great, make sure he can also do it on other objects as well. We will use this in some of the tricks that we will teach and specifically on different objects. So make sure he can offer that. For the paw touch, it looks great! He is using his nose a bit too much. Try to hold the target in the air and see if he will paw it higher up. A lot of time that will get ride of the nose touching (although sometimes it makes it worse 😉… Read more »
Jordan – thanks for the feedbacks. Sure! I will work on that and follow up with another video later. He does do a lot with his paws more than his nose actually. But I will definitely do that. I have a question – is it better we use the verbals on nose and paw touch to differentiate the 2 different touches?
At this point, I would not worry about it. I would just use two different objects and a slightly different positioning. The different positing (of your hand or target) will become a cue then you can add a more reliable verbal when the behavior is more reliable.
How long should a training session be at this age?
Pretty short. I typically try to stick to about 2 mins per trick.
Jordan, what verbals do you use for your two paws? And I have a hand touch called touch but I use that in agility too. Should I make another verbal for this nose touch if we have her nose touch different obstacles and not just my hand? (Don’t want to mess up my agility touch verbal for forced fronts even though it might be situational anyways). Oh btw, I suck at naming verbals (for example my backside is “turn” and my table is “bed” lol) so I will ask this in probably ever lesson.
I think it would most likely be situational and not matter. Dogs are very good at figuring out context 😉 I use, 1,2,3,4 to name their paws. Seems easy enough for me 🙂 You could also use “nose” for the nose touch.
Heres our targeting video.
I chopped it up so its not too long. We have some history with these behaviors and they are named already so I mostly just worked a little on cue discrimination on different things. I should probably revisit a shaping session to strengthen the back feet targeting which I didn’t show here but he does have some comprehension with. For nose targeting Ive named it touch and his feet are 1234 (right side is odd numbers left side is even.
Forgot to tag you @Jordan Biggs
WOW!! That looks SUPER! Love all the different objects that you are using. For the FF targets, I would try some that are higher up in the air for more fun (which I see you are doing more of now 😉 ). Looks amazing!! We will use this in the upcoming lessons 🙂
Thanks Jordan! Will do!
I apologize for the tight camera – we have a small apartment and I am trying to figure out how to prop my phone up somewhere for filming!
She has previously learned these behaviors, so they have names. “Touch” – nose, “Smack” right paw. We will work on left paw as well!
Love it!! One thing you can try (with both nose and FF) is tossing the treats and offering the object (touch or smack) out in the air before she starts to come back. This way she will need to “look” for it. You can also start to add more duration to both by working on delaying the click by a little bit then a bit more and so on.
These are great ideas, thank you!!
Hi @Jordan Biggs, Here are my two videos for targeting. I was also going to ask about what you call the feet and saw your comment. I like the 1-2-3-4. The nose touch is something we have done for a while but the foot is new. This was his second quick session (the first he would pick up his paw but only wanted to touch my arm and not the target plate) He was better today and we will keep working it.
OMG he is so CUTE!! Both are looking great. You can start to add more duration by continuing to slightly with hold the click. I think the paw target session looked awesome! I would hold our the target a bit higher and see what that does. I like to encourage higher front feet because we will use that in the later tricks. Otherwise, continue like this. It is looking great! I like everything you did when he went to pick up the target.
@Jordan Biggs – Thank you for all the great feedback 🙂 Worked hard to only use shaping for all the tricks. Here is the paw targets with more duration. Sometimes he will put his paw on my arm and his dewclaw area actually touches the target plate. Should I still reward that?
Here is our front paw targeting. She has a decent understanding but we need to strengthen that. Plus I don’t have strong verbals yet for front paws separate. I will add that but she’s not ready yet. See what you think:
I am so so sorry for the delayed responce. Thank you for your patience.That is looking fantastic!! One thing I would do with her because she offers so much so quickly, is make sure to click a bit faster in the beginning. Try not to wait for too long to click as that will encourage her to offer more. So in the beginning of any new trick with her (or even some old ones if she is excited or the behavior is not as controlled and you want more control) click and reward a lot for all the smaller steps.
She is psycho! Always does shaping at full speed (she is hungry hippo) haha so this is helpful! I’ve started added words and hand cues too so we are almost there but I might need to get her to raise her paws higher. I’ll work on that too.
Yes… Some of them are that way 😉 Just remember click a lot and early and if something is going wrong, click earlier to slow her down and get a more control of the behavior.
We worked on the foot target last night. I haven’t named each foot. I went to sleep trying to think of names for each foot to add to this behavior? I will work on the nose touch tomorrow, probably with a target that isn’t my hand, since we have a chin rest behavior on cue already.
HEY! Good to see you here 🙂 Looks great for just working on shaping FF on a target! However, I would not name the feet like this because you want a more deliberate thought out behavior. I would hold the target in your hand and work on getting him to lift his paws higher up (again more deliberate, more thought put into it) THEN when he is doing that name it. This way you can really control what foot he is offering based on where you are offering the target as well and it will be easier to name that… Read more »
Awesome! I will do that.
Here is the next try. He seems to be offering his paw quite well – should I name each one at this point?
Not quite. Try getting the different paws by holding the target in the air. I would rather name this when the behavior is a bit more deliberate and having him offer it in the air will do that. This way you can also isolate one paw and the other based on there you offer the target THEN name them.
Jordan, on your description of the nose target what do you mean by “JP” in the following sentence:
Click as soon as they are looking at it or JP if they go to sniff it!
Initially you begin with a target for the paw touch and your hand for the nose touch and then move on to a “new” target for the hand touch. At this early stage, should you use an obviously different target than what was used for the paw touch? My question revolves around the thought, how does the dog know which behavior you are asking for? Thanks, Ingrid
The biggest cue to the dog for which one you want is WHERE you are offering the target. If the target is offered slightly off to the right side of the dogs body they will offer the right and same for the left. So I use that in the beginning to start teaching the verbals (so the dogs can build on success) and change the positioning from there.
Finally got around to trying the Paw Targeting with Lulu. We have never worked on this before. At first she was very confused and tried to nose touch it (we’ve done lots of those) then she started pawing at either my hand or my arm. I did two things that helped: I placed the target on the floor so that my body wasn’t part of the picture and that helped a lot. I also asked her to sit so she would stop moving around. By the end we had some success. She understood that I wanted her to use her… Read more »
Paw targeting – I see what you mean about her trying to nose touch a lot. I agree, I think that the sit really does seem to help her. But she is still so much trying to nose the object. My first suggestion would be to try using a different object so it doesnt look so much like you are wanting her to nose touch (I would use something bigger like a block). But by the end of the video she is doing much better. So continuing like this and really reinforcing that you want her to touch that with… Read more »
Paw Target For session 2 I used a bigger more obvious target: a wooden block. At first I clicked even if she also got my arm as well as the block, But then at the end I tried to be pickier. I also moved the block to around. Went to a smaller block and also placed it on my knee and on the ground. Nose Target I only clicked and treated if she responded to the verbal — if she moved toward my hand without the verbal I moved my hand away. Her response when I moved my hand away… Read more »